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	<title>Menéame: comentarios [680149]</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 13:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<meneame:comment_id>4225536</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>8</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>Kartoffel</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>0</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>11</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#8 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c08#c-8</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 13:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kartoffel</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c08#c-8</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p><a class="tooltip c:680149-7" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c07#c-7" rel="nofollow">#7</a> El artículo es propaganda, y utiliza una falacia muy básica. Sería bueno repasar la lógica aristotélica: afirmar la premisa es afirmar la conclusión, pero afirmar la conclusión <strong>no</strong> es afirmar la premisa. Es decir:<br />
<br />
- <em>Si llueve, el suelo se moja</em> no implica que si <em>el suelo se moja, esté lloviendo</em> (podría estar mojado porque están regando, por ejemplo). De forma equivalente, decir que la actividad solar provoca cambios en el clima (verdadero) no implica que todo cambio en el clima sea causado por la actividad solar (falso).<br />
<br />
La literatura científica al respecto es concluyente (ver <a class="tooltip c:680149-4" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c04#c-4" rel="nofollow">#4</a>): aunque el Sol tiene importante influencia en el clima, es imposible explicar el calentamiento global actual con los cambios en la actividad solar, <em>whichever of the mechanism is invoked and no matter how much the solar variation is amplified.</em></p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>Kartoffel</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4225500</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>7</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>starwars_attacks</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>0</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>8</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#7 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c07#c-7</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 13:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>starwars_attacks</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c07#c-7</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p><a class="tooltip c:680149-5" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c05#c-5" rel="nofollow">#5</a> me parece que el artículo te viene a decir que la principal causa del cambio climático es por influencia solar, no tanto la influencia humana.</p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>starwars_attacks</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4223774</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>6</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>jm22381</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>0</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>20</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#6 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c06#c-6</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 00:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jm22381</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c06#c-6</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>ANTIGUA -&#62; 24-Mar-2007</p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>jm22381</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4223616</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>5</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>fernandiky</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>0</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>12</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#5 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c05#c-5</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 23:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>fernandiky</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c05#c-5</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Me parece que el comentario de <a class="tooltip c:680149-4" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c04#c-4" rel="nofollow">#4</a> es un magnífico resumen.<br />
Para el que no se haya enterado, como <a class="tooltip c:680149-2" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c02#c-2" rel="nofollow">#2</a> pues que el cambio climático lo hacemos nosotros, con el CO2. Vamos, lo que ya sabíamos.</p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>fernandiky</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4223329</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>4</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>Kartoffel</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>2</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>33</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#4 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c04#c-4</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kartoffel</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c04#c-4</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p><a class="tooltip c:680149-3" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c03#c-3" rel="nofollow">#3</a> <em>&#62; hay importantes investigaciones científicas detrás</em><br />
<br />
Por supuesto que hay importantes investigaciones científicas. Veamos qué dicen:<br />
<br />
<em>solar radiative output trends contributed little of the 0.2°C increase in the global mean surface temperature in the past decade</em><br />
<a href="http://ieg.or.kr:8080/abstractII/G0102523037.PDF" title="ieg.or.kr:8080/abstractII/G0102523037.PDF" rel="nofollow">ieg.or.kr:8080/abstractII/G0102523037.PDF</a><br />
<br />
<em>It seems likely that over the last 500 years the sun has played a role in the changing climate. However, there is little evidence to suggest that changes in irradiance are having a large impact on the current warming trend.</em><br />
<a href="http://ppg.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/23/3/309" title="ppg.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/23/3/309" rel="nofollow">ppg.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/23/3/309</a><br />
<br />
<em>it is unlikely that Sun–climate relationships can account for much of the warming since 1970</em><br />
<a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&#38;_udi=B6VHB-3X9YR6N-4&#38;_user=10&#38;_coverDate=01/01/1999&#38;_rdoc=1&#38;_fmt=&#38;_orig=search&#38;_sort=d&#38;view=c&#38;_acct=C000050221&#38;_version=1&#38;_urlVersion=0&#38;_userid=10&#38;md5=9f89b27c032ed62c31c9593387adb5e7" title="www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&#38;_udi=B6VHB-3X9YR6N-4&#38;_user=10&#38;_coverDate=01/01/1999&#38;_rdoc=1&#38;_fmt=&#38;_orig=search&#38;_sort=d&#38;view=c&#38;_acct=C000050221&#38;_version=1&#38;_urlVersion=0&#38;_userid=10&#38;md5=9f89b27c032ed62c31c9593387adb5e7" rel="nofollow">www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&#38;_udi=B6VHB-3X9YR6N-4&</a><br />
<br />
<em>the Sun has contributed less than 30% of the global warming since 1970</em><br />
<a href="http://www.mps.mpg.de/homes/natalie/PAPERS/warming.pdf" title="www.mps.mpg.de/homes/natalie/PAPERS/warming.pdf" rel="nofollow">www.mps.mpg.de/homes/natalie/PAPERS/warming.pdf</a><br />
<br />
<em>most warming over the last 50 yr is likely to have been caused by increases in greenhouse gases</em><br />
<a href="http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/StottEtAl.pdf" title="climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/StottEtAl.pdf" rel="nofollow">climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/StottEtAl.pdf</a><br />
<br />
<em>Observational data suggest that the Sun has influenced temperatures on decadal, centennial and millennial time-scales, but radiative forcing considerations and the results of energy-balance models and general circulation models suggest that the warming during the latter part of the 20th century cannot be ascribed entirely to solar effects.</em><br />
<a href="http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&#38;cpsidt=14604941" title="cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&#38;cpsidt=14604941" rel="nofollow">cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&#38;cpsidt=14604941</a><br />
<br />
<em>solar variability is unlikely to have been the dominant cause of the strong warming during the past three decades</em><br />
<a href="http://cc.oulu.fi/~usoskin/personal/nature02995.pdf" title="cc.oulu.fi/~usoskin/personal/nature02995.pdf" rel="nofollow">cc.oulu.fi/~usoskin/personal/nature02995.pdf</a><br />
<br />
<em>during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source.</em><br />
<a href="http://www.mps.mpg.de/dokumente/publikationen/solanki/c153.pdf" title="www.mps.mpg.de/dokumente/publikationen/solanki/c153.pdf" rel="nofollow">www.mps.mpg.de/dokumente/publikationen/solanki/c153.pdf</a><br />
<br />
<em>since 1975 global warming has occurred much faster than could be reasonably expected from the sun alone</em><br />
<a href="http://www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun &#38; Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf" title="www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun &#38; Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf" rel="nofollow">www.acrim.com/Reference Files/Sun &#38; Global Warming_GRL_2006.pdf</a><br />
<br />
<em>The variations measured from spacecraft since 1978 are too small to have contributed appreciably to accelerated global warming over the past 30 years.</em><br />
<a href="http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/mpa/publications/preprints/pp2006/MPA2001.pdf" title="www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/mpa/publications/preprints/pp2006/MPA2001.pdf" rel="nofollow">www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/mpa/publications/preprints/pp2006/MPA2001.pdf</a><br />
<br />
<em>the observed rapid rise in global mean temperatures seen after 1985 cannot be ascribed to solar variability, whichever of the mechanism is invoked and no matter how much the solar variation is amplified.</em><br />
<a href="http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/proceedings_a/rspa20071880.pdf" title="www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/proceedings_a/rspa20071880.pdf" rel="nofollow">www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/proceedings_a/rspa20071880.pdf</a></p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>Kartoffel</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4223292</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>3</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>--109724--</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>2</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>24</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#3 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c03#c-3</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>--109724--</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c03#c-3</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p><a class="tooltip c:680149-1" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c01#c-1" rel="nofollow">#1</a> en la noticia dice que hallaron un método para determinar la actividad solar de hace siglos gracias a los registros de auroras boreales, relacionados con la temperatura medida según los registros del Nilo. Además relacionada <a href="http://meneame.net/story/video-cientifico-sobre-fraude-cambio-climatico-espanol" title="meneame.net/story/video-cientifico-sobre-fraude-cambio-climatico-espanol" rel="nofollow">meneame.net/story/video-cientifico-sobre-fraude-cambio-climatico-espan</a> <br />
<br />
No es algo que se deba tomar a la ligera, hay importantes investigaciones científicas detrás y no lo dice un laboratorio desconocido, lo dice el JPL dependiente de la NASA, es decir, un laboratorio de primer nivel en el ámbito mundial.<br />
<br />
Que el CO2 no tenga que ver demasiado en el cambio climático, no significa que se deban abandonar las investigaciones para reducir su emisión, y emplear fuentes de energía renovables.</p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>--109724--</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4223263</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>2</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>starwars_attacks</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>0</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>8</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#2 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c02#c-2</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>starwars_attacks</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c02#c-2</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>que me aclaren si el aumento de calor es por actividad solar o por incremento en co2, a ver si se aclaran.<br />
<br />
gracias por la noticia <a class="tooltip l:680149" href="https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico" rel="nofollow">#0</a></p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>starwars_attacks</strong></p>]]></description>
	</item>

	<item>
		<meneame:comment_id>4223238</meneame:comment_id>
		<meneame:link_id>680149</meneame:link_id>
		<meneame:order>1</meneame:order>
		<meneame:user>Kartoffel</meneame:user>
		<meneame:votes>2</meneame:votes>
		<meneame:karma>33</meneame:karma>
		<meneame:url>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico</meneame:url>
		<title>#1 Importante correlación entre la actividad solar y el cambio climático</title>
		<link>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c01#c-1</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kartoffel</dc:creator>
		<guid>https://www.meneame.net/story/importante-correlacion-entre-actividad-solar-cambio-climatico/c01#c-1</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Conocida desde hace tiempo. No obstante, a partir de 1960 es insuficiente para explicar el calentamiento: <a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/tsi_vs_temp.gif" title="www.skepticalscience.com/images/tsi_vs_temp.gif" rel="nofollow">www.skepticalscience.com/images/tsi_vs_temp.gif</a><br />
<br />
<em>Propaganda magufa, voto como tal</em></p><p>&#187;&nbsp;autor: <strong>Kartoffel</strong></p>]]></description>
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